In a classic sports photo from the 1960s, Cassius Clay (soon to change his name to Muhammad Ali) stands over his defeated opponent, Sonny Liston. Clay still has his fist cocked menacingly, and his eyes glare down with contempt. The referee had to shove Clay to his corner in order to be able to begin to count Liston out.
I see this as a metaphor for the contest between Donald Trump and the deep state, with Mr. Trump the one who is prostrate on the canvas. Maybe you think that Trump deserved this fate (some boxing aficionados felt that way about Sonny Liston). I am sad for him.
If Mr. Trump was less than honorable in refusing to acknowledge defeat, his opponents are less than satisfied with mere electoral victory. The current impeachment is reminiscent of the beheading of Oliver Cromwell, which took place two years after his death.
The social media bans remind me of the lobotomy Nurse Ratched orders for Randle McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.
If you are having a hard time figuring out whether I am pro-Trump or anti-Trump, that is not deliberate obfuscation on my part. I am on of one of the few people in the world who feels ambivalently about him. I am inclined to be more up on him when is down, and vice-versa.
You may recall that I wrote in Paul Ryan’s name on my 2016 ballot. I prefer the Paul Ryan or Ben Sasse types, even though they lack charisma.
While Mr. Trump’s temperament in office was a constant source of irritation for many people, I only was deeply disturbed twice, and in both instances Mr. Trump had a hard time recognizing that a supporter of his could be obnoxious.
Once was during the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville. A statesman would have attended a Black church near Charlottesville in order to clearly distance himself from the white racists.
The second time was the aftermath of the 2020 election. My first words were “Biden won. Get over it, people.” A statesman would have conceded and then called for a bipartisan commission to recommend procedures to ensure in the future that we have orderly elections with prompt, reliable results.
When I look at the foreign policy establishment, the public health establishment, and the economic policy establishment, I wish that Mr. Trump could have done more to overcome them. As I have said before, I fault Mr. Trump for being unable to find and keep the sort of personnel who might have helped him do that. I would have preferred to see the deep state with its back on the canvas.
Mr. Trump’s legacy includes upwards of 20 million voters who believe that the 2020 election was stolen. That belief is a dangerous tumor in the body politic. It reminds me of the belief of Germans that they did not really lose the first World War. It reminds me of the belief that Michael Brown and George Floyd died because of their race. Bad things happen when leaders use cancerous lies as springboards.
A courageous post. Thank you.
Sorry, Hans. You are wrong. Today you show courage when you fight back the barbarians
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-domestic-war-on-terror-is?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=copy
And remember today Biden is a worse liar than in 1987 (when he was Ted K’s little puppet)
https://www.city-journal.org/bidens-inaugural-speech-words-of-division
BTW, this is the intellectual courage you may need now
https://tomluongo.me/2021/01/20/epitaph-for-a-post-trump-america/
I kinda feel for Arnold. A blue state libertarian who must get a lot of flak at the Cowen/McArdle/Cato type cocktail parties. Not to mention his crazy left congregation. So yeah, a post like this and many others that I’ve read takes cojones.
Again, the most reliably fair and incisive public intellectual in times of crisis.
Our system is evidently thoroughly resistant to democratic course corrections. The furies of the past four years of the Resistance, a media frenzy of never-ending attack and negative spin even on obvious successes, the contemptuous coverage or lack of coverage of the first lady as further evidence of spitefulness, as well as the entrenched deep state counter-measures are proof of our perilous state.
This vocal and furious resistance cared not that they were establishing new incentive structures that will have many consequences in years to come, not all of which they will be able to contain the ill effects. Congress is broken, led by ancient and degraded pols such as Pelosi, Hoyer, Clyburn, McConnell, and Schumer. Even the Feinsteins and Leahys are allowed to linger on with no end in sight. The legislature does not legislate, but gathers special interest pleadings into massive, unread bills.
The Trump presidency was an opportunity to exert some democratic course correction, but everything had to be executed perfectly, with full determination in the face of the circumstances of the resistance. I sincerely doubt that this country any longer can produce sufficient expertise retaining that commitment to the MAGA movement’s principles or any other characterization you might make of the policy choices here.
+1
I disagree with the use of the term “Deep State”. It has a specific meaning, and language matters. Like many, I would have likely fewer regulations, or at least simpler ones; and more civil liberties as well. I think Trump has not delivered much on both sides. His accomplishments, on criminal justice and tax reform, were not his making at all. Focusing on his victimhood status seems oddly dissonant for a blogger who has consistently lowered the status of victimhood culture.
This criticism is very common, but it always seems odd. The accomplishments of any President of the US are large team efforts, not solitary single-man efforts; that’s how it’s supposed to work.
Focusing on his victimhood status seems oddly dissonant for a blogger who has consistently lowered the status of victimhood culture.
There are lots of pseudo victims in today’s narrative. There are also some genuine victims.
He was an 80’s era Democrat, which shows how far left this country of aging white male landowners has shifted.
Also a deep state boot licker with that pardon list
Trump accomplished a lot even if he was far from perfect. He will be missed among the little people whose lives his policies benefited and who will now be impoverished by lower income and higher energy bills. I called for his impeachment on several occasions for high crimes like giving federal employees wastefully lavish pay raises and wastefully allowing covid relief money to flow to corrupt universities and colleges that are sitting on billions in endowments. But at least I was never a sanctimonious blue-sky nirvana fallacy spouting ankle I biting mediocrity like Ben Sasse. The days when politicians can advance themselves academic-style, truckling to the establishment and scorning their constituents are coming to an end. Sasse will never rise any higher. See:
https://americanmind.org/salvo/the-life-of-sasse/
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/01/19/teach-your-kids-to-not-become-ben-sasse-1018405/
But Trump the man has always been the least of issues. Giving the establishment the defenestration it so richly deserves is still unfinished business. If anything, the swamp has grown more confident in its occult powers. And electoral integrity will not go away as an issue. Whatever your opinion about the amount of fraud involved in the last election, nobody knows for sure how much actually occurred, and some of the more sentient influencers recognize it. Look to see pressure for “Florida-style election reform” being applied in state capitols. The Biden Administration’s over-the-top goofiness is not going to win any hearts and minds and the little people are going to want to be sure that their votes actually count next time around.
The Democrats bitterly contested the 2000, 2004, and 2016 elections and claimed those were stolen. Even, this week, Hillary and other leading Democrats still insist that the 2016 election was stolen by the Russians. This may be a dangerous tumor, but it’s been ingrained in the US for 20 years.
In the interview with Angelo Codevilla linked yesterday, Codevilla claims we are ruled by a non-meritocratic elite class that merely pretends to follow the traditional US rules of government. Is this belief a more dangerous tumor than a single election being stolen?
Lastly, I’d be interested in Kling’s response to this: https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/04/fraud-or-no-fraud-this-election-wasnt-fair/
Yeah lotta sore losers around the last few cycles. There has to be a reason…not the record low popularity for 4 straight years…a raging pandemic, the worst employment performance of any post war president etc etc etc…
It is simply bizarre to evaluate the Trump Presidency without the slightest discussion of the fact that he deliberately incited a violent insurrection in which hundreds of his most rabid followers rioted, killed a policeman, injured dozens more, overran police lines, vandalized the Capital and came within minutes of kidnapping and possibly executing some of the nations top elected officials in a failed attempt at a violent coup.
Any chance that’s worth as much attention as a third grade teacher preaching Critical Theory briefly before she was quickly shut down by a few parents who objected?
You’re trolling. This is a serious conversation.
I’m completely serious and I’ve been involved in a lot more serious conversations here than you have.
If you have a serious reason why this shouldn’t be a big part of evaluating his Presidency you can say what it is anytime Fred.
Critical Theory infects every single aspect of our lives and gets shoved down our throats daily. We have a botched vaccine rollout in large part because critical theory infected the CDC and demanded bad decisions that cost lives get made. Trump, meanwhile, got my parents on the list for a vaccine that the Dems though they were too white to deserve.
There was no attempt at a violent coup. Absolutely no actions that would constitute a coup took place or were contemplated. Anyone that is an expert on coups, or even you own basic common sense, would tell you this. There is no possible chain of events that leads from riot -> Trump dictator for life. Even if they killed every single legislator in the Capitol building, Biden would still be president today.
A mob of people stormed the capital building. They may or may not have done violence to elected officials if they got in the room earlier. As it stands they got bored, took some selfies, and went home. It is sad that cop got killed, but you voted for the party whose actions killed far more cops in riots far larger, in language far more charged and deliberate.
It is entirely unclear that Trump deliberately did anything. If the language Trump used on Jan 6th constitutes deliberate incitement, many of the people inside the capitol during the riot and most of the democratic leadership is guilty of deliberate incitement for six months (or longer, I was dealing with BLM riots five years ago). Sadly, targeted at their innocent ordinary citizens. They reaped what they sow, or at least might have come close to it. I have infinitely less sympathy for them than their victims that have endured this and so many other crimes for so long.
I say this out of goodwill and kindness. But, have you considered doing a defrag on your personal hard drive? You just won an election and your team has full control of the legislative branch. In addition, the MSM and social media are fully in your court. Yet, you sound like one of the sorest winners that I’ve ever encountered.
All mainstream conservative outlets have already condemned the Capitol riots and Arnold has been very clear on this topic since at least early November. How much more do you need? Please specify what you need from us so that you can move on with your life.
Yes there were perfunctory and quickly forgotten condemnations from conservative quarters. Surely you are aware you can find plenty of the same type of perfunctory condemnations of rioting and looting during BLM riots by progressives. You don’t have any trouble figuring out why they aren’t adequate.
Actually it took days and a lot of pressure from his key supporters for Trump to make even a perfunctory condemnation of the rioters in what looked like a hostage video. The first video he released during the attack had no condemnation of the rioters. Instead, it had the kind of maudlin, gushing affection for them he normally reserves only for Kim Jong Un.
The rally preceding the riot was scheduled deliberately for precisely the date and time when followers (who had been threatening violence on line for weeks) could be riled up with instructions that they were to go to the Capital and “stop” what was going on there which was described as the stealing of an election. Just in case there was any ambiguity Rudy instructed them to prepare for “trial by combat” at the same rally.
This all occurred in an atmosphere where the recently pardoned Michael Flynn was calling for martial law, Lin Wood (who had filed many of the Trump legal challenges to the election) was calling for Pence to be executed by firing squad even as traditionalists preferred the kind of lynching that was more common back when America was really great. They proceeded with the construction of a mock gallows at the Capital.
Here is reporting from The Hill from the point of view of that notorious leftist Ben Sasse:
“As this was unfolding on television, Donald Trump was walking around the White House confused about why other people on his team weren’t as excited as he was as you had rioters pushing against Capitol Police trying to get into the building,” Sasse told conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt in an interview. “That was happening. He was delighted.”
So then, if could sum up what I “need from you” Hans, it would be an admission that his trashing of the longstanding norms around the peaceful transfer of power on this country will be his most pernicious and lasting legacy.
God bless and best wishes! Ironically, you’re starting to sound like the left wing equivalent of a QAnon conspiracist. Sincere apologies, but gotta be honest. All I watch is Fox News and I heard nothing but outrage and condemnation over the Capitol riots.
The primary reason that many on the left are so anti-divorce along blue/red lines is that they would no longer have a ready whipping boy (“white supremacist” boogeyman and the like) to endlessly flog. They would be forced to find a new pariah group and there aren’t that many of those kinds of groups remaining along intersectional lines. The whole facade would come crashing down.
>—” Ironically, you’re starting to sound like the left wing equivalent of a QAnon conspiracist. ”
What in the world are you talking about? I haven’t alleged any kind of conspiracy at all. Everything I have described was done out in the open. Trump has never made the slightest effort to hide his authoritarianism.
I watch some Fox News to see what reality is like over there and I see far more outrage at the idea he could be impeached for inciting an insurrection than outrage that he encouraged it. Even here, trying to establish a legal precedent that such a thing is not OK is seen as equivalent to ” the beheading of Oliver Cromwell, which took place two years after his death” and the insurrection at the Capital has yet to be mentioned for the first time in one of Arnold’s posts as I recall. I’m sure you will correct me if I missed a mention by him.
The “full control of the legislative branch ” that you are so worried about is by just about the narrowest margin in history and almost certain to be reversed at the next mid-terms. Meanwhile we constantly hear that Trump’s most glorious achievement (and the rationalization for looking the other way on so much else) is that he has delivered control of the judicial branch to the Republicans for a generation.
As for the idea the country needs to break apart, you are the one who is panicking Hans. America has always had various thriving extremist subcultures. Left wing and black racial violence was far worse in the 60’s and early 70’s. Right wing and white racial violence was far worse before that. The two extremes keeping each other in check is the main thing that has made this country work so far.
In any event the main divisions are between urban and rural inside of states more than between states. You say that both sides hate each other but I don’t hate you and (correct me if I’m wrong) and I don’t think you hate me.
Greg,
It’s difficult to impeach him because he didn’t incite an insurrection. That’s a literal fact.
At worst, you could say he used charged political rhetoric and that indirectly led to violence. But if that is the precedent being established, most of the Democratic Party would be guilty for their role in far more direct and far more inciteful rhetoric surround the BLM riots and RESIST! more generally.
That’s why it’s a hard sell. Because the truth of that matter is that its pretty run of the mill rhetoric in politics.
This is literally just yesterday:
—
“I hope historically we will find out who he’s beholden to, who pulls his strings,” she continued. “I would love to see his phone records to see whether he was talking to Putin the day that the insurgents invaded our Capitol.”
Clinton said she agreed with Pelosi that Congress should create a panel similar to the 9/11 Commission to investigate what happened on Jan. 6 and whether any connections between the president and Russia were possible.
“Congress needs to establish an investigative body like the 9/11 Commission to determine Trump’s ties to Putin so we can repair the damage to our national security and prevent a puppet from occupying the presidency ever again,” Clinton tweeted along with audio from the interview.
—
It’s been four years and one kangaroo impeachment later and she is still saying Russia stole the 2016 election.
>—“That’s why it’s a hard sell. Because the truth of that matter is that its pretty run of the mill rhetoric in politics.”
It’s about way more than just the Trump rhetoric. You need to consider the context. It’s as much about what he refused to say as what he did say. When your supporters are publicly debating whether or not to execute your Vice-President by firing squad or hanging and you are doing nothing to discourage, and a lot to encourage those same people, that is not “run of the mill politics.” When your personal attorney tells the mob as it heads for the Capital to prepare for “trial by combat” that is not “run of the mill politics.” When the President is sitting glued to the TV and “delighted” that the Capital is being attacked by rioters, that is not “run of the mill politics.”
Why do you think every one of the many rioters arrested at the Capital sincerely believed they were doing what their President had instructed them to? Was that just an extraordinary co-incidence? I don’t recall any BLM rioters using the “Biden told me to do it” defense.
As for HRC, her influence with Democrats is long gone and her refusal to just shut up is a gift to people like you who never tire of talking about her as if she runs the Democratic Party.
Every bit of violence at BLM protests was good politically for Trump and bad politically for Biden and everybody knew it. Those rioters were a mix of criminals and radical political actors fed up with both major parties. Biden never encouraged that rioting and frequently condemned it.
Trump was not impeached for colluding with the Russians in the 2016 election. He was impeached (like Nixon) for Obstruction of Justice and for the abuse of power involved in extorting the Ukrainians to try and get them to provide fake evidence against Biden.
Greg,
Arnold nailed it back on 11/6. It probably won’t satisfy your silly little litmus test, but here you go…
“But when each state has declared a winner, the election will be over. It should not be litigated and re-litigated. And by no means should people take to the streets.”
https://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/banana-republic-watch/
If the criteria for support you want to use is that you tell people to do something peacefully, but endorse statements and logic that can lead to violent ends, then Biden constantly endorsed BLM violence. Constantly. And still is!
Biden Claims That:
1) Systematic Racism is Real
2) Endorsed Critical Race Theory directly in a televised debate
3) Claims prominent black deaths were innocents and caused by police racism
4) That America has made little progress on these issues because is just that damn racist
If all that is true, why shouldn’t you burn down a police station.
“Will someone not rid me of this troublesome priest!”
To say nothing of the DIRECT statements in support of violence of Pelosi, Harris, and a bevy of other Dem politicians and their professional class supporters. Do I really need to go find the YouTube clips, or will you just accept this.
“In Defense of Looting” ain’t looking so great anymore. Nor is firing that guy at the NYTimes for wanting to publish an op-ed about sending in the national guard.
Gee, I wonder where these protestors got the idea that their actions were justified.
Biden’s FIRST ACT after the capitol riot was to claim that the police that defended congress were racists that allowed it because they were racist and that if they were BLM protestors they would have put it down (by what, shooting dead more unarmed people, does he imagine machine gun volleys into the crowd by the same police if only the rioters were black).
I take Kling’s stance to be that he doesn’t care who wins elections because he doesn’t think it matters, all he really cares about is a peaceful transfer of power. If the price of a peaceful transfer of power was that a fraudulent winner won, then it’s a small price to pay.
I also think he cares just as little about “technically legal but shady and probably shouldn’t be legal” votes.
If you don’t share his view on the stakes of elections or electoral fraud, then its unconvincing.
The election committee thing is fluff. Trump already tried that:
https://vdare.com/posts/the-rise-and-fall-of-trump-s-voter-integrity-commission
Greg,
I unequivocally don’t dislike you. On the contrary, as pointed out in previous posts, I am a fan of you and your comments.
However, I have no desire to live in the same state as you.
I don’t want to get into this debate, but in the interests of accuracy I would like to contest this one little bit:
It was a conversation with Nancy Pelosi, and Pelosi was saying the same things. Are you going to say that she also has no influence with Democrats?
Hans,
Your wish is granted. You will continue to enjoy the benefits of my incisive and entertaining comments without any risk at all of us residing in the same state.
One of the many great things about the USA is that we get to live in a giant free trade zone and enjoy all the prosperity that entails while also co-operating in a common defense in a way that has made us the most powerful nation on earth.
And everyone gets to live in the state they want and move between them freely. I am glad different people prefer different states just as I’m glad almost everyone prefers their own children and pets. It wouldn’t work nearly as well if everyone had the same preferences. I don’t even think it would work as well if all the states were the same. It’s good that the extremes check each other’s power and the center gets to decide.
I often enjoy your comments even when I disagree with them since you are one of the few commenters here who has a sense of humor and doesn’t take himself too seriously.
Greg,
A very good and generous comment. I look forward to continuing to read your comments on this blog.
As recompense, I feel like I should send you one of the leftover, but brand new MAGA hats that we purchased off of Amazon. Made in China :). I double dog dare you to wear it in your neighborhood. Talk to you soon.
I hope you got a good discount on those MAGA hats Hans.
Actually Trump won my neighborhood and voting district. But I might enjoy using that hat to prank some of my friends and relatives anyway. It probably won’t surprise you all that much to know I enjoy provoking my left wing friends and relatives as much as my right wing ones. I’m heterodox and centrist enough to annoy both.
I read his speech. I do not think he incited a violent insurrection. He explicitly said he wanted the crowd to march to the Capitol Building “peacefully and patriotically”. I do think QAnon message boards helped incite the riot. Trump bears some of the same of the blame for them, but that effect is second-order.
The events of January 6th are better described as a riot in my opinion. Slightly better security at the Capitol Building would have prevented the riot from entering it. Videos of the Trump supporters walking around the Capitol Building are farcical.
The police, meanwhile, treated the Trump supporters more harshly than any of the rioters last summer: none of them died, versus the death of one QAnon Trump supporter.
“Slightly better security at the Capitol Building would have prevented the riot from entering it.”
Completely agree. Every terrorist organization globally is doing a collective facepalm right now! All it took was a QAnon shaman with a spear to potentially end democracy as we know it.
Perhaps it’s time to move the crafty and cunning TSA over to do Capitol security?
https://youtu.be/IHfiMoJUDVQ
Once was during the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville. A statesman would have attended a Black church near Charlottesville in order to clearly distance himself from the white racists.
Really. I think the mutants and freaks on TV and in the papers wouldn’t have taken such a gesture seriously, so it would have been entirely in vain.
Trump’s statesmanlike accomplishments were to not start any new wars and seek peace in a number of frozen US conflicts, sometimes successfully, and even to smother the arab murder spree in Europe for the duration. This in spite of a disloyal or sometimes plainly traitorous state apparatus and its supine courts.
According to this post, Trump’s negative contributions were:
1. Failing to “clearly distance himself from the white racists.”
2. A “legacy [which] includes upwards of 20 million voters who believe that the 2020 election was stolen. That belief is a dangerous tumor in the body politic.”
His positive contributions were:
1. Wanting to change the establishment, though failing at an opportunity cost of 4 years (“When I look at the foreign policy establishment, the public health establishment, and the economic policy establishment, I wish that Mr. Trump could have done more to overcome them. As I have said before, I fault Mr. Trump for being unable to find and keep the sort of personnel who might have helped him do that. “)
Sure he has some obnoxious opponents, but please help me understand:
How could that balance net to an “ambivalently” assessed impact on the country?
“Sure he has some obnoxious opponents, but please help me understand”
Here’s your answer: Four years of Trump were better than what we would have gotten under four years of Clinton.
You’re welcome.
I am of the same opinion. I think our dear host is way too soft on Trump. His pettiness, juvenile Twitter antics, egotism, lack of integrity, and incompetence have discredited any strain of right wing populism in the eyes of an awful lot of people. I view him as a kind of Mccarthyite figure: someone who did grievous damage to his own cause due to his personal flaws and inability to restrain himself.
According to a poll I’ve seen, a lot more than 20M people believe the election was stolen. The poll said it was 70% of Trump supporters plus 20% of opponents, so more like 90M.
As for a bipartisan reform commission, that’s such a Pollyanna notion it’s laughable. State lawmakers in many states went out of their way not just to expand mail balloting for this election, but to legalize ballot harvesting and suspend ID requirements. You don’t do those things unless you want to enable cheating. The Democrats on your bipartisan commission would do anything in their power to defang the whole project. If they couldn’t, they’d vote it down when it reached the floor.
Maybe the Cadaver Trial of Pope Formosus is more like it
Ryan and Sasse, to speak as kindly as possible, are Republicans of the previous style as Charles Murray succinctly put in a May 2016 AEIdeas essay shilling for Hillary.
“Without getting into the comparative defects of Clinton and Trump (disclosure: I’m #NeverTrump), I think it’s useful to remind everyone of the ways in which having a Republican president hasn’t made all that much difference for the last fifty years, with Ronald Reagan as the one exception.”
Ryan and Sasse could march through the bureaucracy, but they were never going to make much of a difference except on paper. Trump on the other hand, has made more difference than most perceive right now. His “antics” were often cover to keep the DC monkeys throwing poo instead of interfering with foundational changes. And he has forced people to wake up and see. This latter is what upsets so many as they know that observation exposes them or will bring change.
And no, after the Charlottesville, only a cheesy politician would have went to a Black Church nearby to pander and a media op. Trump demonstrated his support by real changes that helped black citizens directly.
And no polite bipartisan commission means cover up, not changes. Now, even with the unfortunate incursion into the Capitol, the data nerds are interested in the election and will poke at it for years. And findings will be news, where as the “statesman” approach would have ensured even the commission “report” wouldn’t be news. A bit of a tempering that at best Jan 6 would have gotten the challenges on the Congressional Record would have been a better approach, but not challenging was not going to get election fraud dealt with, even the routine minor fraud that is so common.
Trump was an awareness event. When that happens, you are of a mindset to notice dangers right in plain sight that you’ve become inured to.
Arnold, later you will have time to reassess what has happened in your country since 2000 and put Trump’s presidency in a proper historical context.
Today, your problem is that the barbarians have taken DC over. You have a problem, a serious one, and since you claim to love your grandchildren, I hope you are ready to fight back. Remember they want to control your life and your grandchildren’s lives.
The rotten and corrupt democrats and their new friends are planning to cancel you and your grandchildren. Their little puppets like Greg G are for us to laugh at their idiocy (they are used to repeat lies). You should focus on the big puppets –there are several at GMU’s Mercatus Center– and challenge them. Forget about the nonsense macroeconomics that Alex and Tyler teach and focus on their new grotesque ideas of building state capacity. Forget about the nonsense libertarianism that denies the existence of government and politics and focus on how new political forces can fight back the barbarians.
“I prefer the Paul Ryan or Ben Sasse types, even though they lack charisma.”
This suggests what I think is the best case for Straussianism in politics. Perhaps there could never be a charismatic Paul Ryan or Ben Sasse. Reality intrinsically lacks charisma. To be a good politician you have to sell a dangerously over-simplified version of reality and constantly engage in ‘conflict theory’ rhetoric. Maybe the best we can do is try to find the politicians who are both able to pander to the intellectual lowest common denominator while also somehow hinting that they don’t actually believe the nonsense politics requires them to indulge in.
At the root on the Establishment’s vast ire with Trump was his actions on “free trade.” After Trump put tariffs on China, and other actions, the Establishment went after him like rapid hyenas. The rest, such as Trump’s putative racism or Russiagate, was just window dressing.
Big Tech, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, the multinationals are deeply vested in trade with China and the CCP.
BTW, a “must read” book is Michael Pettis’ “Trade Wars are Class Wars.”
Side note: The “Unite the Right” crowd has hurt American blacks about 1% as much as open borders for trade and immigration has.
I think the three things about Trump which made me feel less negative towards him than I might otherwise were:
He infuriated the sort of people who I like to see furious
If the events in the Middle East of the last year or so had occurred under a Democratic presidency then due praise would have been lavishly bestowed
If his outlook could have been combined with, say, Reagan’s persona he’d have been an outstanding President. I guess it goes to show that there a certain import which is necessary for credible leadership.
But there again I read what Andrew Sullivan has said this last few weeks and find it hard to disagree, though we part company at his high hopes for Biden/Harris. The Republicans have three and half ish years to find someone sane and follow critical elements of the Trump agenda with better bedside manner.
I have no love for any politician, but I don’t get being ambivalent about Trump. His main interests seemed to be himself, and his most sincere positions apart from that appeared to be his mercantilist trade policies.
I think this story below is archetypical of the problems with Trump, though I guess to be a true archetype it’d require more tariffs and personal insults (bleeding facelifts?).
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/pentagon-reaffirms-microsoft-winner-10b-jedi-cloud-contract-amazon-appeal-still-pending/
Two other points:
1. Arnold talks about the religion of climate change, and I get where he’s coming from. To me, and fairly apparent in this comments section, the Trump worship is also at religion type levels.
2. If you want to feel bad about politicians getting flattened (by some combo of the “deep state”, Trumpers and the left) how about someone like Justin Amash, who was principled, conservative, independent and is now basically irrelevant (along with many of the libertarian ideas he represents) after 4 years of Trump.
This string has been a useful exchange of ideas for me. It forced me to go back and review my reasons for opposing Donald Trump very vigorously, both in person and in any articles I could post.
I found that my greatest anger at Trump came from:
a. his personal repulsiveness — making fun of the handicapped, of ex-POW’s like McCain, of Muslims, of desperate immigrants, of homely women, defending Sheriff Joe, defending Nazi types at Charlottesville, Trump University…..
b. his actions that any right-wing President would have done — tolerance of polluters, tolerance of cheap-labor employers, tolerance of natural resource grabbers, weakening consumer protections, undermining the ACA with nothing to replace it, et. al.
I
b.
I was going to add that I supported his Middle East policies. I also felt he did as well as anyone else would have done on Covid — would Andrew Cuomo have been better?
Great post, Arnold.
Tiny typo “I am on of one of the few people in the world”, reminds me of a headline about “Trump getting his wish” where some poll found, first time, that 100% had an opinion of him (I vaguely recall 79% against, 21% for).
Trump is a narcissist, like Cassius Clay, and both are often quoted claiming “I am the Greatest …”. I remember the photo clearly, and recall thinking Clay was gloating, and angry, and ready for more. But not contempt, not at all. I’d say that photo was more Trump as Clay/Ali vs Liston as deep state Hillary in 2016. Liston was 8-1 favorite, Clay had promised to win, Clay won. Like Trump in 2016.
I’m among those who believe the election was stolen, thus peaceful protests against unjust election fraud are morally good. As John Hindraker noted (not sure of fraud), the Dems were doing everything they could to allow fraud. Mail-in rejection rates in PA are an example: in 2016, the rejection rate was 4% overall, but in 2020, with millions more including first time mail-in voters, the rate was only 0.28%. Signature verification and address requirements were eliminated. The Dems wanted that “all votes count” – including Mickey Mouse and dead people and illegals and unidentified voters.
Mail-in ballots hugely increase the possibility of fraud. They are heavily restricted in the EU – Slovakia wanted to allow easier access for Slovaks living abroad, but the fraud possibility and measures to avoid fraud are important argument points.
What do you claim about being against election fraud? That this “belief is a dangerous tumor in the body politic”. Of course, like most CYA elite intellectuals, you’ll claim you are against election fraud. And this election didn’t have any. Or not much. Or not widespread enough to change the result. That’s your belief – where’s YOUR evidence? Proving all the ballots are clean, once clean and dirty ballots are mixed, is as difficult as proving them dirty. Thus the need for rules to make sure they’re all clean before being counted. So rules are made to make them clean – signature & address verification, Rep & Dem observers, strict chains of custody.
What about when the rules are broken? Breaking the rules doesn’t prove any ballot is dirty – but means none can prove the election is clean. I flatly do not believe in 67% legal vote turnout given so many rules violations.
The censorship against discussing the evidence as evidence, and lack of detailed explanations about the rules violations, makes me stronger in my belief. Just as today, most historians believe Chicago’s Mayor Daly created enough dead people’s vote to fraudulently let JFK win over Nixon, I’m pretty sure the future historians will be putting an * asterix after Biden’s name about the stolen election.
The abolition of slavery movement started out mostly peacefully, and was against the injustice of slavery. Women gaining the right to vote was against the injustice of not allowing women to vote. The Civil Rights protests were against the injustice of Democratic Party KKK Jim Crow laws against Negroes.
Trump wanted yuuuge peaceful protests against election fraud. Others, including Trump supporters and Trump haters, wanted violence, planned violence, and did a very little amount of violence – against limited Capitol police (why so few? DC Mayor wanted few), against some windows. Some people died. One Trump supporter, unarmed Ashli Babbit, was killed by a policeman, video available. This violence, planned before Trump spoke and with the “Storm the Steps” illegal entering of the Capitol starting before Trump finished speaking, is being falsely blamed on Trump’s speech. But support for the mass protest is certainly based on rejection of election fraud – and support of Trump’s claims of election fraud 2020.
Those against election fraud in general need to address exactly how much election fraud there was in 2020. Systemic election fraud is a clear injustice, worth fighting against – for those who want to protest something like a rigged election.
The FBI thought the first Clay-Liston fight was rigged – but there hadn’t been big betting just before. The FBI certainly rigged the Sec. Clinton illegal email investigation to avoid any indictment of clearly criminal behavior by HR Clinton. The FBI illegally was spying on Trump before his election, and was part of the deep state lies fed to the media for two years about Russia Collusion. Where actually Clinton & her campaign had far more contact with Russians. Numerous deep state illegal unmaskings of Trump supporters were tolerated, without any prosecutions, and only cover-up investigations, if any investigation at all.
The FBI changed its internal guidelines on “whistleblowers” from requiring first person witnesses to allowing hearsay so as to allow a non-participant in a Presidential call to Ukraine to be used against Trump in a nearly-kangaroo impeachment proceeding.
In this respect, Trump is a victim of the deep state – and the power elite are both gloating and contemptuous of the non-elite deplorables.
I don’t feel too sorry for the give-as-good-as-you get Trump & his insults.
But I do feel sorry, very sorry, for an America which has accepted election fraud – and is quite unable to prove there wasn’t fraud.
Those who want to change the beliefs of others have the burden of proof.
+1
Tom,
>—“But I do feel sorry, very sorry, for an America which has accepted election fraud – and is quite unable to prove there wasn’t fraud.”
It’s a logical impossibility to prove the non-existence of something. That’s why this is the favorite test demanded by every gullible conspiracy theorist.
How about if every one of the over 60 lawsuits filed with the promise of proving fraud is thrown out by mostly Republican judges many of whom were appointed by Trump? Nope that’s not enough.
How about if Trump is caught on tape browbeating a Republican election official (who voted for him) to “find” exactly the number of votes he needs? Nope that’s not enough.
How about if Trump announced BEFOREHAND he would say that ANY result other than a win for him was illegitimate? Nope that’s not enough.
How about if the conspiracy needed to be pulled off flawlessly in many states by many people, all of whom are the same people you think are incompetent to perform any of the legitimate functions of government? Nope that’s not enough.
Nothing can satisfy a determined conspiracy theorist. It’s all just evidence of an even larger conspiracy.
Arnold had it right. You are peddling “a cancerous lie.”
By the way Tom, Trump did better than expected in the urban and black areas where all this fraud was alleged to be occurring. He lost because he did worse than expected in the white suburbs.
And these same purportedly fraudulent ballots caused many Republican Senatorial and Congressional candidates to do better than expected.
Turns out the most unpopular President in the history of polling just wasn’t that popular.
“It’s a logical impossibility to prove the non-existence of something.”
There’s nothing “impossible” about auditing an election, e.g. by verifying addresses and signatures. Signature verification in particular is a common safeguard that was championed publicly by then-Pres. Obama in 2012.
As far as those failed lawsuits go– they failed because, by and large, they were asking the courts to do something that courts can’t do. Private groups have extremely limited recourse in the judicial system for claims of election misconduct. This is especially true when there has been no audit/recount/investigation ordered by the government.
That’s not necessarily a “bad” thing. Elections are the foundation of the political process, and as such, they enjoy a degree of insulation from the checks and balances normally provided by the judiciary and (to a lesser extent) executive. This is especially true of the presidential election, the governance of which the Constitution explicitly places in the exclusive jurisdiction of the state legislatures.
So, the ordinary path for pursuing a claim of election misconduct would be petitioning the state legislature and/or the governor. There were legislative hearings in several states, and noise from the legislators, but I don’t think it’s hard to understand why that went no where in many places, especially PA or MI.
In the wake of a spate of such hearings in Georgia, one of the committees in the state senate actually issued a fairly detailed report declaring that it was their belief that election fraud probably did occur in Georgia. Nothing happened as a result (in my opinion because elected officials were scared to death of the prospect of invalidating an entire election).
At any rate, my biggest takeaway from this election was the nearly total absence of recourse available to private parties in re election misconduct.
Take, for example, the many poll watchers who provided affidavits alleging that they were denied access to ballot counters. What are they supposed to do if the legislature just ignores them? What claim are they supposed to bring in court? And against whom? What damages can they allege?
Or the electors in Wisconsin who spent all summer out and about on social media despite claiming that they were indefinitely confined in their homes. Is this not a flaunting of the rules governing our elections?
Fwiw, I didn’t vote for Trump, and I certainly don’t think that some grand new scheme was invented to thwart him. But I found the lack of redress for what seemed like clear instances of electoral misconduct to be disquieting and dispiriting.
>—“As far as those failed lawsuits go– they failed because, by and large, they were asking the courts to do something that courts can’t do. Private groups have extremely limited recourse in the judicial system for claims of election misconduct. ”
Many of these lawsuits failed because those bringing them did not have standing to bring them. That is true.
If they had had real evidence of fraud it would have been easy to get people with real standing to bring these suits. That didn’t happen because there was no evidence, just allegations and conspiracy theories.
Someone casting a fraudulent ballot is risking a felony conviction in exchange for the absurdly tiny chance that their vote would decide the national election. The idea that you could convince mass numbers of people to do this is preposterous. The idea you could attempt it on a large scale without anyone screwing up and leaving convincing evidence of a larger conspiracy is even more preposterous.
+1
Well, its finally over for now.
I have always found there was a negative space in Arnold’s posts where Trump, and the larger concept of Trumpiness was supposed to be, and it was upsetting because I read and participate here because for a long time I saw his commentary the same way as John Alcorn described above. The inability to even register January 6 was the final nail.
Trump’s true legacy was that he presented a strange public comportment that he adapted whole cloth to a political comportment. Unlike any previous politician I can think of, his followers and even his enemies were compelled to try out some or even most of that package themselves, and, here’s the creepy part, they found it deeply satisfying emotionally.
There appears to be a very, very deep frustration with modern life, and putting on some Trump felt like it was finally possible to punch back. It was a way to rage back against the norms and rules and BS, all the endless arguments that went nowhere, all the people who were two faced, all the slow suffocating slights of modern life.
It was OK to just pursue what you felt, to show no respect for the straightjacket of modern society, to ignore the tedious arguments. Just pretend it wasn’t true. Tell them they are idiots. No need to dot your i’s and cross your t’s, just go for it and anyone who got in your way was corrupt. Revel in the anger that came back at you. It just proves that your opponents were evil like you claim they are. It was a strategy of complete disrespect for anyone and anything that impeded you. It felt like getting out of jail.
Unfortunately, all that hid the fact that Trump was in reality quite lazy, not particularly intelligent or disciplined about anything other than his attention machine, and didn’t care one iota about any of them except as a way to hold power. He often bumped into legitimate ideas, but rarely knew what made them legitimate, and he was as intoxicated by all this as his followers were. He never saw any limit to any of this. In his mind he was a historically great man who should be afforded unlimited power.
Well, Trumpiness doesn’t scale. A teaspoon works well enough to shake things up, but everyone can’t act like this all the time. That social space between us we all need to negotiate is still there, and you can only cheat that for so long. Trump has burnt those connections and left everyone without any of the wisdom and work ethic we need to make things work.
Trump wasn’t Sonny Liston. He was Parkinson’s. He was never going to fix the deep state. How could you not know that?
Great comment, thanks.
You are wrong. Trump did denounce the deep state and it was up to those claiming decency to attempt to fix it. But there are too many cowards expecting a free ride on others’ sacrifice. I add you to that long list.
I think the Trump presidency after Nov 6th should be called “the Trumpster fire.”
It could have been “the Drumpfster fire” but respecting the name change seemed in order.