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	<title>Comments on: What Else Would be True?</title>
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	<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/</link>
	<description>taking the most charitable view of those who disagree</description>
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		<title>By: Yikes</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yikes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought about this a bit more and realized that we have to account for international trade as well as immigration.  Per the famous &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolper%E2%80%93Samuelson_theorem&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stolper-Samuelson Theorem&lt;/a&gt; we can easily imagine that increased productivity (due to capital improvements) in the US accompanies declining average wages, because wages go up in other countries where low-skilled labor is even cheaper than in the US.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought about this a bit more and realized that we have to account for international trade as well as immigration.  Per the famous <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolper%E2%80%93Samuelson_theorem" rel="nofollow">Stolper-Samuelson Theorem</a> we can easily imagine that increased productivity (due to capital improvements) in the US accompanies declining average wages, because wages go up in other countries where low-skilled labor is even cheaper than in the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin D</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461252</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is how I read Arnold with regards to (1).  If the price of X stays flat and the value of X rises, then we should see X in higher and higher demand.  In econ terms, the marginal benefit of X now exceeds the marginal cost of X for more units of X than before.  It of course is true that people might need to buy less X to meet their needs, but it&#039;s also the case that they get more surplus from X per dollar spent.

Consider it from the perspective of stocks.  If the S&amp;P collectively doubled its earnings per share and dividends tomorrow, what would happen?  On one hand, people would feel wealthier and perhaps feel less of a need to save (say a 50 year old who was formerly getting $25,000/yr in dividends is now getting $50,000/yr, and decides to stop saving).  Conversely, others might find the dividend yield extremely attractive and be very willing to bid up the price of the stock.  My own intuition is that the latter effect will dominate, and the value of the S&amp;P would more or less double.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is how I read Arnold with regards to (1).  If the price of X stays flat and the value of X rises, then we should see X in higher and higher demand.  In econ terms, the marginal benefit of X now exceeds the marginal cost of X for more units of X than before.  It of course is true that people might need to buy less X to meet their needs, but it&#8217;s also the case that they get more surplus from X per dollar spent.</p>
<p>Consider it from the perspective of stocks.  If the S&amp;P collectively doubled its earnings per share and dividends tomorrow, what would happen?  On one hand, people would feel wealthier and perhaps feel less of a need to save (say a 50 year old who was formerly getting $25,000/yr in dividends is now getting $50,000/yr, and decides to stop saving).  Conversely, others might find the dividend yield extremely attractive and be very willing to bid up the price of the stock.  My own intuition is that the latter effect will dominate, and the value of the S&amp;P would more or less double.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Fair</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Fair]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This method of evaluating and using interpretive frameworks sounds very much like Popper&#039;s description of the scientific method.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This method of evaluating and using interpretive frameworks sounds very much like Popper&#8217;s description of the scientific method.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew'</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461244</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew']]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think he refers to the assumption of marginal labor productivity that would typically made in discussion involving homogeneous aggregates that would basically imply that if gdp got cheaper we should buy more gdp.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think he refers to the assumption of marginal labor productivity that would typically made in discussion involving homogeneous aggregates that would basically imply that if gdp got cheaper we should buy more gdp.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew'</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461243</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew']]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 06:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The point here is to go through the exercise. So I do believe slightly less in assort at I&#039;ve mating. OTOH, autism and allergies seem to be rising. IQ bimodalization?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point here is to go through the exercise. So I do believe slightly less in assort at I&#8217;ve mating. OTOH, autism and allergies seem to be rising. IQ bimodalization?</p>
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		<title>By: Yikes</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yikes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Arnold wrote:  &lt;i&gt;Recall that I raised a similar question about the purported finding that in the United States worker earnings have gone nowhere as productivity increased. This should [1] greatly increase the demand for labor. It should [2] greatly increase international competitiveness, turning us into an export powerhouse.&lt;/i&gt;

I see [2] but not [1].  Could you explain more clearly?  My initial view is that  Increased productivity means &lt;i&gt;less&lt;/i&gt; labor is needed to produce the same or more goods and services.  So the first thing more productivity implies is less demand for labor.  The only way it could demand more labor is indirectly, something like &quot;owners of more-productive capital get more surplus to spend, so they demand more goods and services and therefore demand the labor used to produce those.&quot;  But there are all sorts of complications that might even make that statement untrue.  For example, what if the luxuries demanded by capitalists with more surplus were also produced more productively?  Or what if the more-productive capital plant only wanted a few high-skilled workers, so demand for them when up while overall labor demand went down, since many workers are not high-skilled.  Also, in the special case of US wages, they are clearly depressed by increased competition from immigrants.*  With enough immigration, wages can keep falling even as capital becomes more and more productive.  Does that explain the US wage story?

(*Gentle reader, please don&#039;t waste electrons disputing this.  If you don&#039;t know what Tata Consulting is or why Silicon Valley uses so much immigrant labor, you are too ignorant to contribute anything useful.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnold wrote:  <i>Recall that I raised a similar question about the purported finding that in the United States worker earnings have gone nowhere as productivity increased. This should [1] greatly increase the demand for labor. It should [2] greatly increase international competitiveness, turning us into an export powerhouse.</i></p>
<p>I see [2] but not [1].  Could you explain more clearly?  My initial view is that  Increased productivity means <i>less</i> labor is needed to produce the same or more goods and services.  So the first thing more productivity implies is less demand for labor.  The only way it could demand more labor is indirectly, something like &#8220;owners of more-productive capital get more surplus to spend, so they demand more goods and services and therefore demand the labor used to produce those.&#8221;  But there are all sorts of complications that might even make that statement untrue.  For example, what if the luxuries demanded by capitalists with more surplus were also produced more productively?  Or what if the more-productive capital plant only wanted a few high-skilled workers, so demand for them when up while overall labor demand went down, since many workers are not high-skilled.  Also, in the special case of US wages, they are clearly depressed by increased competition from immigrants.*  With enough immigration, wages can keep falling even as capital becomes more and more productive.  Does that explain the US wage story?</p>
<p>(*Gentle reader, please don&#8217;t waste electrons disputing this.  If you don&#8217;t know what Tata Consulting is or why Silicon Valley uses so much immigrant labor, you are too ignorant to contribute anything useful.)</p>
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		<title>By: MikeP</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461241</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps the effect is not strong enough to break through randomness in child height?

&lt;blockquote&gt;We conclude that while preferences for partner height generally translate into actual pairing, they do so only modestly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Compare that weak sauce to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nber.org/papers/w19829&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;assortive mating&lt;/a&gt; Arnold is talking about:

&lt;blockquote&gt;...if matching in 2005 between husbands and wives had been random, instead of the pattern observed in the data, then the Gini coefficient would have fallen from the observed 0.43 to 0.34, so that income inequality would be smaller.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the effect is not strong enough to break through randomness in child height?</p>
<blockquote><p>We conclude that while preferences for partner height generally translate into actual pairing, they do so only modestly.</p></blockquote>
<p>Compare that weak sauce to <a href="http://www.nber.org/papers/w19829" rel="nofollow">assortive mating</a> Arnold is talking about:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;if matching in 2005 between husbands and wives had been random, instead of the pattern observed in the data, then the Gini coefficient would have fallen from the observed 0.43 to 0.34, so that income inequality would be smaller.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 02:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054186]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054186" rel="nofollow">http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054186</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Graehl</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Graehl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2015 01:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While you&#039;re at it, &quot;by what odds ratio would we see the evidence we see, if the theory is / isn&#039;t true?&quot;. Granted &quot;what else would be true&quot; is the winning meme of the two and is perfectly suitable as a prompt for idea-generating mode (after which you can run numbers).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While you&#8217;re at it, &#8220;by what odds ratio would we see the evidence we see, if the theory is / isn&#8217;t true?&#8221;. Granted &#8220;what else would be true&#8221; is the winning meme of the two and is perfectly suitable as a prompt for idea-generating mode (after which you can run numbers).</p>
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		<title>By: MikeP</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-else-would-be-true/#comment-461236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=5894#comment-461236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Only if we believe that people are mating by height.  I certainly have no firsthand or other evidence of that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only if we believe that people are mating by height.  I certainly have no firsthand or other evidence of that.</p>
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