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	<title>Comments on: Teaching, Batting, Craft, and Science</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/</link>
	<description>taking the most charitable view of those who disagree</description>
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		<title>By: Arnold Kling</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451083</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arnold Kling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read his book on how to execute the method.  Very robotic.  Although it might help some students in the short run, it struck me as having the potential to do severe long-term psychological damage to many others.  I personally think I would have been traumatized had I been subjected to it as young kid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read his book on how to execute the method.  Very robotic.  Although it might help some students in the short run, it struck me as having the potential to do severe long-term psychological damage to many others.  I personally think I would have been traumatized had I been subjected to it as young kid.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Strong</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451068</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Strong]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2014 02:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Missing Institution and its potential impact is invisible and unimaginable to Arnold and many others,

http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/09/scaling-quality-through-the-missing-institution/

Much as the entire tech revolution, 1960-2015, would have been invisible and unimaginable in 1960 if the entire world had been Soviet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Missing Institution and its potential impact is invisible and unimaginable to Arnold and many others,</p>
<p><a href="http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/09/scaling-quality-through-the-missing-institution/" rel="nofollow">http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/09/scaling-quality-through-the-missing-institution/</a></p>
<p>Much as the entire tech revolution, 1960-2015, would have been invisible and unimaginable in 1960 if the entire world had been Soviet.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Sperry</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451059</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Sperry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would be very interested to know why you were not convinced.  Even just a gist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be very interested to know why you were not convinced.  Even just a gist.</p>
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		<title>By: Handle</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451056</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Handle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Much of what you write in #6 seems to be at odds with Robin Hanson&#039;s quip that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/08/school-isnt-about-learning.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;School Isn&#039;t About Learning&lt;/a&gt;.

Hanson has endorsed the view that schooling is about conformity, and conditioning children to grant deference to authority and fit into modern industrialized work patterns.  But it seems to me that people (especially young boys) find formal education and typical work patterns equally unnatural settings and that &#039;dealing with behavioral issues&#039; is coincidental in both contexts - using similar human disciplinary techniques that work on most humans in most contexts.  That is, his claim is the &lt;i&gt;Post hoc ergo propter hoc&lt;/i&gt; fallacy.  Just because work follows education, and both require similar systems of adjustment and behavioral influence, doesn&#039;t mean that the earlier is for the sake of the latter.

I&#039;ve both been a work-supervisor and instructor of very young men (18-20), and whether one is trying to focus their attention and keep them on task or impart familiarity of some knowledge or improve their performance of some skill, the techniques are largely the same.  And yes, plenty of experience and coaching / mentoring in these techniques can be very helpful to one&#039;s effectiveness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of what you write in #6 seems to be at odds with Robin Hanson&#8217;s quip that <a href="http://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/08/school-isnt-about-learning.html" rel="nofollow">School Isn&#8217;t About Learning</a>.</p>
<p>Hanson has endorsed the view that schooling is about conformity, and conditioning children to grant deference to authority and fit into modern industrialized work patterns.  But it seems to me that people (especially young boys) find formal education and typical work patterns equally unnatural settings and that &#8216;dealing with behavioral issues&#8217; is coincidental in both contexts &#8211; using similar human disciplinary techniques that work on most humans in most contexts.  That is, his claim is the <i>Post hoc ergo propter hoc</i> fallacy.  Just because work follows education, and both require similar systems of adjustment and behavioral influence, doesn&#8217;t mean that the earlier is for the sake of the latter.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve both been a work-supervisor and instructor of very young men (18-20), and whether one is trying to focus their attention and keep them on task or impart familiarity of some knowledge or improve their performance of some skill, the techniques are largely the same.  And yes, plenty of experience and coaching / mentoring in these techniques can be very helpful to one&#8217;s effectiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnold Kling</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arnold Kling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I looked into his work several years ago.  I was not convinced.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked into his work several years ago.  I was not convinced.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Sperry</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451047</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Sperry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 06:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you familair with the work of Zig Engelmann?
http://www.zigsite.com/

He spent decades building systems that teach teachers how to teach.

It is a interesting study in someone who was empirically successfully at achieving results at scale.  Sadly political success did not follow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you familair with the work of Zig Engelmann?<br />
<a href="http://www.zigsite.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zigsite.com/</a></p>
<p>He spent decades building systems that teach teachers how to teach.</p>
<p>It is a interesting study in someone who was empirically successfully at achieving results at scale.  Sadly political success did not follow.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Gurri</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/teaching-batting-craft-and-science/#comment-451039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Gurri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2014 01:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=3892#comment-451039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You might really enjoy the book Intelligent Virtue, which plumbs the depth of the idea of skills and crafts pretty deeply.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might really enjoy the book Intelligent Virtue, which plumbs the depth of the idea of skills and crafts pretty deeply.</p>
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