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	<title>Comments on: Does tutoring work?</title>
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	<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/</link>
	<description>taking the most charitable view of those who disagree</description>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Sweeny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2017 18:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;the difficulty in managing the classroom when each student is following an individual course of learning.&lt;/i&gt;

Difficulty?  Difficulty?!?!  Impossibility!  Perhaps if you had 24 extremely self-motivated kids, but then you wouldn&#039;t need a teacher in the first place.

The obvious way to get closer to an &quot;individual course of learning&quot; is to &quot;track&quot; students into faster and slower groups.  But tracking is a very big no-no in modern education.  Partly because blacks and hispanics wind up &quot;over-represented&quot; in the slower groups, while whites and Asians are &quot;over-represented&quot; in the faster groups.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the difficulty in managing the classroom when each student is following an individual course of learning.</i></p>
<p>Difficulty?  Difficulty?!?!  Impossibility!  Perhaps if you had 24 extremely self-motivated kids, but then you wouldn&#8217;t need a teacher in the first place.</p>
<p>The obvious way to get closer to an &#8220;individual course of learning&#8221; is to &#8220;track&#8221; students into faster and slower groups.  But tracking is a very big no-no in modern education.  Partly because blacks and hispanics wind up &#8220;over-represented&#8221; in the slower groups, while whites and Asians are &#8220;over-represented&#8221; in the faster groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Sperry</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Sperry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2017 07:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;”Despite the empirical evidence, many mastery programs in schools have been replaced by more traditional forms of instruction due to the level of commitment required by the teacher and the difficulty in managing the classroom when each student is following an individual course of learning.”

I think the same thing goes on in the Judicial system with things like the HOPE program that Mark Kleinman wrote about. 

In terms of education the book &quot;Teaching Needy Kids in Our Backward System&quot; is at once a story of one of educations greatest success stories, and a depressing story of political failure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;”Despite the empirical evidence, many mastery programs in schools have been replaced by more traditional forms of instruction due to the level of commitment required by the teacher and the difficulty in managing the classroom when each student is following an individual course of learning.”</p>
<p>I think the same thing goes on in the Judicial system with things like the HOPE program that Mark Kleinman wrote about. </p>
<p>In terms of education the book &#8220;Teaching Needy Kids in Our Backward System&#8221; is at once a story of one of educations greatest success stories, and a depressing story of political failure.</p>
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		<title>By: static</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476698</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[static]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2017 03:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My personal experience with mastery learning is that it is very effective. I was able to progress twice as fast as the standard pace through math for several years, before it was discontinued in the school district. It simply allowed people that can learn faster than average to move at the pace they are capable of, instead of waiting for the pace of the class. In addition, it simply saves time by preventing people who can already pass a test at a 90% level from taking the class again. I would imagine tutoring is even more flexible in that direction.

For people that are not making progress at the standard pace, I think the benefits of mastery learning show up on a longer timeline, as they are not &quot;socially promoted&quot; to the next topic or level without demonstrating mastery, despite a gap in foundational knowledge or skills. 

So despite significant evidence of success, why is it not practiced? This suggests a corollary to the null hypothesis...&quot;Despite the empirical evidence, many mastery programs in schools have been replaced by more traditional forms of instruction due to the level of commitment required by the teacher and the difficulty in managing the classroom when each student is following an individual course of learning.&quot; So, if an educational intervention requires significantly more work from the teacher, it is unlikely to be implemented well, regardless of its effectiveness.

Individual mastery learning, fully differentiated, could see each student working on a different topic. It would reduce the opportunities for the teacher to lecture to the class, and increase the level of individual support needed to answer questions for each student...almost like tutoring.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My personal experience with mastery learning is that it is very effective. I was able to progress twice as fast as the standard pace through math for several years, before it was discontinued in the school district. It simply allowed people that can learn faster than average to move at the pace they are capable of, instead of waiting for the pace of the class. In addition, it simply saves time by preventing people who can already pass a test at a 90% level from taking the class again. I would imagine tutoring is even more flexible in that direction.</p>
<p>For people that are not making progress at the standard pace, I think the benefits of mastery learning show up on a longer timeline, as they are not &#8220;socially promoted&#8221; to the next topic or level without demonstrating mastery, despite a gap in foundational knowledge or skills. </p>
<p>So despite significant evidence of success, why is it not practiced? This suggests a corollary to the null hypothesis&#8230;&#8221;Despite the empirical evidence, many mastery programs in schools have been replaced by more traditional forms of instruction due to the level of commitment required by the teacher and the difficulty in managing the classroom when each student is following an individual course of learning.&#8221; So, if an educational intervention requires significantly more work from the teacher, it is unlikely to be implemented well, regardless of its effectiveness.</p>
<p>Individual mastery learning, fully differentiated, could see each student working on a different topic. It would reduce the opportunities for the teacher to lecture to the class, and increase the level of individual support needed to answer questions for each student&#8230;almost like tutoring.</p>
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		<title>By: BillD</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BillD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chicago Tribune is running a sad series on the state of public high schools. This one is more evidence for the null hypothesis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-schools-funding-grants-20171204-story.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chicago Tribune is running a sad series on the state of public high schools. This one is more evidence for the null hypothesis.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-schools-funding-grants-20171204-story.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-schools-funding-grants-20171204-story.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Sweeny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beyond a certain point, the null hypothesis definitely doesn&#039;t work in both directions.  Very, very few schools in America are at that point but many schools around the world are.  Lant Pritchett&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Rebirth of Education: Schooling Ain&#039;t Learning&lt;/i&gt; (Center for Global Development, 2013) is about how the successful campaign to build schools around the world has not been accompanied by successful use of the schools.  It is full of sad statistics on educational achievement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beyond a certain point, the null hypothesis definitely doesn&#8217;t work in both directions.  Very, very few schools in America are at that point but many schools around the world are.  Lant Pritchett&#8217;s <i>The Rebirth of Education: Schooling Ain&#8217;t Learning</i> (Center for Global Development, 2013) is about how the successful campaign to build schools around the world has not been accompanied by successful use of the schools.  It is full of sad statistics on educational achievement.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Arnold: Thanks for formulating The Null Hypothesis in Education. When I first ran across it a few years ago (or maybe more now), it clicked together a lot of things I&#039;d read about educational optimizations.

Do you think the null hypothesis works in both directions?

That is to say, could educators do anything that would derail students&#039; long-term educational progress, at the scale of a large number of students?

Presumably the threshold of physical harm to the brain (which is pretty morbid) is a line beyond which the null hypothesis would be invalid. But if we&#039;re just talking about really, really bad teachers, or eliminating school altogether, do you think students would ultimately wind up in about the same place?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Arnold: Thanks for formulating The Null Hypothesis in Education. When I first ran across it a few years ago (or maybe more now), it clicked together a lot of things I&#8217;d read about educational optimizations.</p>
<p>Do you think the null hypothesis works in both directions?</p>
<p>That is to say, could educators do anything that would derail students&#8217; long-term educational progress, at the scale of a large number of students?</p>
<p>Presumably the threshold of physical harm to the brain (which is pretty morbid) is a line beyond which the null hypothesis would be invalid. But if we&#8217;re just talking about really, really bad teachers, or eliminating school altogether, do you think students would ultimately wind up in about the same place?</p>
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		<title>By: education realist</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[education realist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2017 20:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, no one is addressing learning loss. One on one tutoring, properly matched, would help unengaged kids learn more for the immediate test. As a teacher, I&#039;ve found the learning loss to be astounding. 

I believe we should try teaching far less each year (what we teachers usually call Big 5), teaching it over and over again in different contexts. Add in some new material but don&#039;t expect mastery until it&#039;s the Big Five for the year.

So in algebra one: lines in three forms (counting as two), systems, factoring, basics of coordinate geometry.
Geometry: special rights, right triangle trig, pythagorean theorem, similarity, geometry test facts.
A2: quadratics, power laws, factoring, function concepts &amp; notation, something else I&#039;m forgetting about.

That sort of approach would allow us to better assess long-term understanding and also interventions like tutoring, extra time, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, no one is addressing learning loss. One on one tutoring, properly matched, would help unengaged kids learn more for the immediate test. As a teacher, I&#8217;ve found the learning loss to be astounding. </p>
<p>I believe we should try teaching far less each year (what we teachers usually call Big 5), teaching it over and over again in different contexts. Add in some new material but don&#8217;t expect mastery until it&#8217;s the Big Five for the year.</p>
<p>So in algebra one: lines in three forms (counting as two), systems, factoring, basics of coordinate geometry.<br />
Geometry: special rights, right triangle trig, pythagorean theorem, similarity, geometry test facts.<br />
A2: quadratics, power laws, factoring, function concepts &amp; notation, something else I&#8217;m forgetting about.</p>
<p>That sort of approach would allow us to better assess long-term understanding and also interventions like tutoring, extra time, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles W. Abbott</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476657</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles W. Abbott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2017 14:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Slate Star Codex: &quot;If there is any possible way it can be selection bias, it&#039;s selection bias.&quot; 

= - = - = - = 

I think tutoring can help people learn things over the long term if they really want to learn it.  I tend to be agnostic about this stuff.  

You know the kids in high school who want to own their own calculus textbook so they will have it with them in college, where they expect to use it again?  They can benefit from tutoring.  

You know the people who are planning to take a CPA exam or an actuary exam, and they think every topic they learn is important, because passing the exam is a personal goal and brings a big boost in income?  They can benefit from tutoring.  

= - = - = - = 

Some of it might be time on task, and the benefits of coaching.  A lot of people benefit from coaching.  Can tutoring sometimes be the same as coaching?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slate Star Codex: &#8220;If there is any possible way it can be selection bias, it&#8217;s selection bias.&#8221; </p>
<p>= &#8211; = &#8211; = &#8211; = </p>
<p>I think tutoring can help people learn things over the long term if they really want to learn it.  I tend to be agnostic about this stuff.  </p>
<p>You know the kids in high school who want to own their own calculus textbook so they will have it with them in college, where they expect to use it again?  They can benefit from tutoring.  </p>
<p>You know the people who are planning to take a CPA exam or an actuary exam, and they think every topic they learn is important, because passing the exam is a personal goal and brings a big boost in income?  They can benefit from tutoring.  </p>
<p>= &#8211; = &#8211; = &#8211; = </p>
<p>Some of it might be time on task, and the benefits of coaching.  A lot of people benefit from coaching.  Can tutoring sometimes be the same as coaching?</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Sweeny</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476656</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Sweeny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2017 14:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t read the linked article but the quote under 1. suggests that the experimenters drilled the students about a number of facts, tested for memory of those facts, drilled again, tested again, and continued until the students tested perfectly (or up to some standard they defined as &quot;mastery&quot;).

That is basically what teachers do today, just on steroids.  Teachers teach, test (&quot;formative assessment&quot;), reteach, but since time is limited then give a final test (&quot;summative assessment&quot;).   Young people have a wonderful capacity for short term memory and much of what this does is just test willingness and ability to hold knowledge in short term memory.

Teachers then pretend (to themselves, to their students, and to the educational establishment) that this knowledge stays with the students.  Even though all of us in the business know that knowledge &quot;decays&quot; when it is not used.  Our ability live with, and hardly notice, the contradiction is a fact of life.

Almost all educational research is short-term.  Which is fine if the aim of education is to develop the ability to memorize and use information for a limited period of time and then forget it--which is actually a very useful skill.  However, if the aim of education is to learn things you don&#039;t forget, such research is largely useless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the linked article but the quote under 1. suggests that the experimenters drilled the students about a number of facts, tested for memory of those facts, drilled again, tested again, and continued until the students tested perfectly (or up to some standard they defined as &#8220;mastery&#8221;).</p>
<p>That is basically what teachers do today, just on steroids.  Teachers teach, test (&#8220;formative assessment&#8221;), reteach, but since time is limited then give a final test (&#8220;summative assessment&#8221;).   Young people have a wonderful capacity for short term memory and much of what this does is just test willingness and ability to hold knowledge in short term memory.</p>
<p>Teachers then pretend (to themselves, to their students, and to the educational establishment) that this knowledge stays with the students.  Even though all of us in the business know that knowledge &#8220;decays&#8221; when it is not used.  Our ability live with, and hardly notice, the contradiction is a fact of life.</p>
<p>Almost all educational research is short-term.  Which is fine if the aim of education is to develop the ability to memorize and use information for a limited period of time and then forget it&#8211;which is actually a very useful skill.  However, if the aim of education is to learn things you don&#8217;t forget, such research is largely useless.</p>
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		<title>By: Isegoria</title>
		<link>http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/does-tutoring-work/#comment-476655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Isegoria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2017 12:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/?p=9727#comment-476655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/blooms-2-sigma-problem/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bloom&#039;s two-sigma problem&lt;/a&gt;, which we&#039;ve mentioned before.

One &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.isegoria.net/2013/04/the-problem-with-blooms-two-sigma-problem/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;problem with Bloom&#039;s two-sigma problem&lt;/a&gt; is that Bloom compared classroom mastery learning against one-on-one tutor-based mastery learning, without holding the goal-level of mastery constant.

His &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.isegoria.net/2012/01/developing-talent-in-young-people/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Developing Talent in Young People&lt;/a&gt; finds that prodigies didn’t start off with prodigious skills, but they were allowed to pursue their interests at their own accelerated pace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is <a href="http://www.isegoria.net/2011/12/blooms-2-sigma-problem/" rel="nofollow">Bloom&#8217;s two-sigma problem</a>, which we&#8217;ve mentioned before.</p>
<p>One <a href="http://www.isegoria.net/2013/04/the-problem-with-blooms-two-sigma-problem/" rel="nofollow">problem with Bloom&#8217;s two-sigma problem</a> is that Bloom compared classroom mastery learning against one-on-one tutor-based mastery learning, without holding the goal-level of mastery constant.</p>
<p>His <a href="http://www.isegoria.net/2012/01/developing-talent-in-young-people/" rel="nofollow">Developing Talent in Young People</a> finds that prodigies didn’t start off with prodigious skills, but they were allowed to pursue their interests at their own accelerated pace.</p>
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